Bike turns on but no signals, brake light and horn

[Geanmage13]

Hey guys, i am really curious about whats going on with the bike.

I have a 2013 Fz8 and i'm from California. Recently i went on vacation for a couple of weeks and i left the bike in the garage. When i came home the battery was COMPLETELY dead. Not even lights on the dashboard. So the first thing i did was try to jump start it with a car, when it was turned off, for safety. That didn't work so i bought a battery tender and let it charge for around 6-7 hours. Now the bike can start (with some difficulty i'd say) but i have no turn signals, no break light and the horn doesn't work. What's weird is that the VERY first time i turned it on after charging it for 6-7 hours, i went for a ride just to let the battery restore itself and everything worked.

I have no idea how this could happen and i am trying to get opinion before i take it in...

 

[buzzyclonecattleman]

Hey guys, i am really curious about whats going on with the bike.

I have a 2013 Fz8 and i'm from California. Recently i went on vacation for a couple of weeks and i left the bike in the garage. When i came home the battery was COMPLETELY dead. Not even lights on the dashboard. So the first thing i did was try to jump start it with a car, when it was turned off, for safety. That didn't work so i bought a battery tender and let it charge for around 6-7 hours. Now the bike can start (with some difficulty i'd say) but i have no turn signals, no break light and the horn doesn't work. What's weird is that the VERY first time i turned it on after charging it for 6-7 hours, i went for a ride just to let the battery restore itself and everything worked.

I have no idea how this could happen and i am trying to get opinion before i take it in...

I'd take it in, but it would seem the battery hasn't fully recharged. Battery tender takes alot longer than an actual battery charger and AGM batteries are kinda funny when they've been deeply discharged. When they're voltage gets below 11.5 it can require a special charger and procedures to recharge back to their full state.

Had my 2013 FZ8 totally discharge on accident right after I got it, and was able to slowly bring it back to life, but only by adjusting the charge levels on the charger. I wouldn't presume to give you the procedure, because I'm not sure it was the best way to do it, but it took more than leaving it on my battery tender for a few hours which I tried at first.

I'd also check the fuses, but hopefully someone a lot more knowledgeable than me can chime in here.

 

[Geanmage13]

As of now i already have it charging with the battery tender for almost two days... lol!! Let's see what happens Thank you for the input!

 

[npeifer2308]

To me it just sounds like you have a battery issue. Might be worth going to get the battery tested at a local shop. They should defiantly be able to tell you if the battery is still good or not. Like buzzy said, you should check all your fuses and connections to make sure they are good.

 

[Blackfin]

The brake light, the horn and the flasher are all fed from a single fuse (the "SIGNAL" fuse.) It's likely that with all three systems dead this fuse is blown.

Try inspecting and replacing that fuse. If it blows again you've got a short somewhere in that circuit.

 

[Geanmage13]

Thank you guys!!! I'll check it on my first day off...you probably saved me $$ from taking it in!!

 

[npeifer2308]

Any progress on the issue? Find out what was/is causing the problem? Just curious and it might help out other people in the future.

 

[Geanmage13]

Sorry for the late reply.

After all it turned out it actually was the fuse. So i replaced that and everything was fine. Although i'm not sure if the front turn signals should always be on - or should they?! Never paid attention to that. My guess is that my i900 scorpio alarm drained my battery and even after letting it charge for a full 3-4 days, i turned the bike on, took a ride and on my way back, it wouldn't turn on again. So i disconnected the alarm from the battery and charged it for another 3-4 days and today, i started it but my headlight was out (although the high beams work) and everytime i use the turn signals, the alarm beeps with it too.. although disconnecte... LOL!!! so i had to make sure the battery is ok at least. I turned the bike off and on and nothing. Battery's completely drained. Time for a new battery. I'm open to any suggestions guys...

 

[reALIGNed]

Typically when you jump start a motorcycle with a car battery, you can wipe out tons of electrical components from the massive amperage surge of the car battery (650cca) being shot into your small battery. Normally some batteries on the motorcycle end up exploding and/or you wipe out the regulator-rectifier assembly along with many fuses. ditch the stupid alarm install a new battery and once running check for proper voltage output from the bikes alternator, at idle and fast idle (1500rpm's). if your with in factory specs then your bike should be fine.

 

[Blackfin]

Sorry for the late reply.

After all it turned out it actually was the fuse. So i replaced that and everything was fine. Although i'm not sure if the front turn signals should always be on - or should they?!

The front bulbs have two filaments; one serves as the turn signal, the other as a "running light." The running lights are on whenever the ignition is on.

Never paid attention to that. My guess is that my i900 scorpio alarm drained my battery and even after letting it charge for a full 3-4 days, i turned the bike on, took a ride and on my way back, it wouldn't turn on again. So i disconnected the alarm from the battery and charged it for another 3-4 days and today, i started it but my headlight was out (although the high beams work) and everytime i use the turn signals, the alarm beeps with it too.. although disconnecte... LOL!!! so i had to make sure the battery is ok at least. I turned the bike off and on and nothing. Battery's completely drained. Time for a new battery. I'm open to any suggestions guys...

I don't agree with reALIGNed on wiping electrical components from the "massive amperage surge" of jump starting (etc) but I do agree with his suggestion to get rid of the alarm. Or, at the very least, go over the wiring and see if anything is obviously wrong.

Looking at the i900 alarm manual online, it's connected to the turn signals and tail light via "HAR1". Either it's miswired or there's internal damage in the control module and activity on the turn signals is feeding back into the controller causing the alarm to beep.

 

[Geanmage13]

Typically when you jump start a motorcycle with a car battery, you can wipe out tons of electrical components from the massive amperage surge of the car battery (650cca) being shot into your small battery. Normally some batteries on the motorcycle end up exploding and/or you wipe out the regulator-rectifier assembly along with many fuses. ditch the stupid alarm install a new battery and once running check for proper voltage output from the bikes alternator, at idle and fast idle (1500rpm's). if your with in factory specs then your bike should be fine.

I did some research before i actually did it and most people said it is actually safe as long as you don't turn on the car! As for the alarm, yeah i'm probably gonna end up selling the alarm because a lot of people have complained that it drains the battery! I should have my new battery on Wednesday and hopefully all will be ok!

 

[Geanmage13]

Looking at the i900 alarm manual online, it's connected to the turn signals and tail light via "HAR1". Either it's miswired or there's internal damage in the control module and activity on the turn signals is feeding back into the controller causing the alarm to beep.

What is the weird thing in this case is that it looks like while charging it with the battery tender, stuff are getting burnt out. First a fuse went out and now the headlight. As for the turn signals beeping, it only started happening as soon as i disconnected the alarm from the battery. Maybe i should leave it like that so i don't forget them on?! hahaha

 

[Blackfin]

I did some research before i actually did it and most people said it is actually safe as long as you don't turn on the car! As for the alarm, yeah i'm probably gonna end up selling the alarm because a lot of people have complained that it drains the battery! I should have my new battery on Wednesday and hopefully all will be ok!

Jump starting a 12V bike battery from a 12V automotive battery will be fine, even with the engine running. A battery doesn't just dump 600 amps into a circuit; the circuit draws what it needs from the battery. The cca rating of the battery is simply an indication of what the battery is able to supply under certain conditions. Even with the car running you're fine: because both vehicles use 12V systems and the batteries are lead-acid (or compatible) chemistries you'll find that the charging voltage (i.e. the output of the alternator while the engine is running) is the same between a bike and a car: roughly 14V.

 

[reALIGNed]

A battery doesn't just dump 600 amps into a circuit; the circuit draws what it needs from the battery. .

How does it "draw what it needs". Real curious about this one.

 

[Blackfin]

How does it "draw what it needs". Real curious about this one.

Because of Ohm's Law: I = V/R

Current (amps) equals voltage (volts) divided by resistance (ohms).

The battery supplies the 'V' term (volts) (which is the same for a motorcycle battery and a car battery) and the 'R' (resistance) term is provided by the bike's battery and other circuitry. Since 'V' is the same for both batteries it's 'R' -- the bike's term in the equation -- that determines the current drawn. In other words, the current drawn will be exactly what the circuit demands via its net resistance. The size of the battery plays no part.

A 12V battery the size of a house would provide exactly the same current into a 1-ohm load as the battery in your bike: 1A. Its giant size would simply allow that battery to do that for, say, months versus ~9 hours or so for your bike's battery.

 

[reALIGNed]

Its not going to happen like that, have you ever hooked up a charger to a lead acid battery, and cranked it up to 50A, it begins to percolate internally (watch the rising bubbles) and will internally arc and short out (and can cause an explosion if not vented properly). Now imagine it with a car battery at 650 cca's vs 50, it is not regulated in any way and if left connected too long can blow out the diodes in the bikes voltage regulator/rectifier. Your statement is true (Ohms law) to a point, as long is there is no "load" on the electrical system, but in this case there is load, (over-discharged battery) that will attract the heavy surge of amps., not volts. Only the volts will equalize at (12v). And as far as "current draw needed", it is a minimal amount supplied from the alternator/stator (18A) that recharges the bikes battery. Many have jumped their bike over with a car battery, but is not recommended.

 

[Blackfin]

Its not going to happen like that, have you ever hooked up a charger to a lead acid battery, and cranked it up to 50A, it begins to percolate internally (watch the rising bubbles) and will internally arc and short out (and can cause an explosion if not vented properly).

In order to generate 50A current flow the charger needs to produce significantly more voltage at its output than the terminal voltage of 12-14V found in most standard automotive charging systems. When you "crank it up" you're increasing the charger's output voltage which, according to ohm's law, will increase the current into a given resistance. This is not the same as connecting a 12-14V battery to another one.

As well, that 50A flow is continuous versus the momentary inrush a dead battery might see from a fully charged one. Indeed, the system has protective feedback: as the dead battery charges and its terminal voltage reaches equilibrium with the fully charged one, current flow diminishes until it reaches zero when the voltages are equal.

Again, this is not the same as a charger set to a constant current of 50A and left to boil a battery.

Now imagine it with a car battery at 650 cca's vs 50, it is not regulated in any way and if left connected too long can blow out the diodes in the bikes voltage regulator/rectifier. Your statement is true (Ohms law) to a point, as long is there is no "load" on the electrical system, but in this case there is load, (over-discharged battery) that will attract the heavy surge of amps., not volts.

PbSO4 batteries will see an increase in internal resistance as they are discharged, not a decrease. This is made evident by the fact that as soon as you attempt to put a load on a dead battery, such as a starter motor, the car's lights all go out and the starter chatters; a high internal resistance is responsible for the voltage drop seen at the terminals under load.)

But yes, a dead battery will draw a few amps of current from a charged one (which shows up as a brief spark when a jumper cable connection is made) but this current is going directly into the battery; it's not going through rectifier diodes. As well, it might be an instantaneous value more like 15-20A, depending on the depth of discharge, a figure that can easily be delivered by a standard motorcycle battery (a YTZ10S, for example, is rated at 190 CCA...)

Only the volts will equalize at (12v).

When the voltages are equalized there is no potential difference and no current flows.

 

[reALIGNed]

What your describing is true for a battery charger especially in automatic mode where it is regulated.You guys can do as you wish here, I'm not going to volley this back and forth. But one more point I'de like to add, the current WILL go thru the rectifier diodes once the engine is cranked and started,........ so be fast to undo the jumper cables from the car battery.

 

[buzzyclonecattleman]

I'd take it in, but it would seem the battery hasn't fully recharged. Battery tender takes alot longer than an actual battery charger and AGM batteries are kinda funny when they've been deeply discharged. When they're voltage gets below 11.5 it can require a special charger and procedures to recharge back to their full state.

Had my 2013 FZ8 totally discharge on accident right after I got it, and was able to slowly bring it back to life, but only by adjusting the charge levels on the charger. I wouldn't presume to give you the procedure, because I'm not sure it was the best way to do it, but it took more than leaving it on my battery tender for a few hours which I tried at first.

I'd also check the fuses, but hopefully someone a lot more knowledgeable than me can chime in here.

Still believe this is could be your problem and the battery may not be bad, but the charger isn't smart enough to charge an AGM battery that's been completely drained.